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Thread subject: Human Intervention
Name Date Message
Tiger 08/08/04 08:09 pm I know much has been made here of the lack of human intervention with regard to the ospreys.

Now I can see that is probably the best policy.

However I am not at all sure that Dennis might not accept help if it were offered. I mean if a large well stocked pond were built in the vicinity I doubt he would ignore it in times of difficulty.

I think this because of what happened during translocation at Rutland Water. After a number of years there were some sub adults around as well as a new batch of chicks.

Fish was left out for the chicks to feed. Now some of the sub adults got used to having an easy meal rather than catch it in the well stocked reservoir.

So I guess ospreys do not worry too much as long as it is fish.

I guess that all of these ideas would be heresy here :)

Shelley 08/08/04 09:41 pm Well, as a serial fence-sitter, I can say with complete honesty that I can see the pros and cons to both sides of the argument...

However, in an indirect way, there actually *is* human intervention here, if you think about it. For one thing, the very fact that the platforms are man-made is human intervention. But beyond that, what about those goldfish? Now, granted, the good folks at the DPOF are not resposnible for what local residentsin the surrounding areas keep in their personal ponds on their private property but no one told Dennis (the osprey) that he was only allowed to fish in the river. I believe it is all about adaptation; birds (and animals) survive by being able to adapt to their conditions and surroundings. Personally, I believe in as little human intervention as possible but, especially if a species was on the brink of extinction, well, I wouldn't hesitate. As for in between, where there isn't a threat of extinction but rather just individual survival, I'd say you'd have to look at it as a case by case situation. After all, isn't that the very essence of animal rehabbing, for example?
Marie 08/08/04 10:09 pm Human intervention seems to play a very important role when it comes to survival of a species. We have a dedicated team that is enabling the almost extinct Vancouver Island Marmot to recover. Also look at the California Condors. Without human intervention they would have been lost...and now look at the osprey recovery programs in Britain. All a result of human intervention. Does man stock the man-made lake in Rutland or are there any streams that supply it with fish and water? Tiger you will know the answer to that one. Human intervention is a necessary part of all of this. Look at the great work of this DPOF and the work many others do all over the world. Even our newcomer Luc is performing a most valuable service to ensure the survival of a few unfortunate Birds who have suffered no doubt through human ignorance. It seems to me that if humans had a better understanding of their place in Nature and didn't go around harvesting everything they so desire we wouldn't have to help Nature do her job. After all much of the demise of bird, animal, plant and insect life is a direst result of our ignorance, selfishness and greed. AMEN.
JayJay 08/08/04 11:54 pm Just a note, When exploring Brookhaven Hamlet on the day we met Betty(the lady) a block or two away we noticed a rather large pond in a neighbor's backyard loaded with water lilies and I am assuming, koi or goldfish. Perhaps this is Dennis' emergency food source? Looking at it from his viewpoint, why not?
Tiger 08/09/04 03:01 am Ah Marie you got me with one question I do not know the answer to! I suspect it has been stocked because the reservoir itself is not natural.

I will look to see if I can find an answer.

Celeste 08/09/04 04:59 am I agree Marie.....there would never have to be any human intervention if we took care of our environment. I remember reading that in some areas menhaden/bunker fish which is an easy fish for the osprey to catch population has decreased because of pollution. The osprey didn't cause the pollution...and as we have observed this year, when fish are plentiful, the success rate of the nest increases. As far as the platforms, Poole mentions this dilemma in his book. He discusses that as wonderful as these platforms are, and the fact that they have helped increase osprey population, in a way it is sad that the osprey have had to adapt to "artificial" means of survival. Thankfully, it has been noted and we have witnessed that the osprey has endured for millions of years because they are so adaptable. So in the end, whatever it takes to preserve the species is a good thing, as long as we continue to preserve their integrity also.
Dave S 08/09/04 07:10 am Celeste hit on an important subject - the menhaden. The Carmen̢۪s River, which is where the DPOF nest is, supported a large number of spawning fish years ago. The river was dammed when Sunrise Highway was built and the fish no longer had access to their up-river spawning grounds. The population dwindled, but the county is going to put a fish ladder at the dam in an effort to bring the fish back. In the meantime, I think private ponds will be a popular with the Osprey!
Cecilia 08/09/04 08:50 am Talk about a classic example of man's unwillingness to take nature into account...that dam must have made enormous changes to the Carmen's river. And Sunrise Hgwy. could have gone over the river! What a mess we have made of our fragile earth :-( I think we saw that dam the day we went canoeing on the it just around the corner from the boat rental place on the highway? That's so interesting about the fish ladders...would the menhaden really be able to swim up and over like the salmon out west?
Marie 08/09/04 08:04 pm That is wonderful Dave, that Fish Ladders will be installed. It is the least we can do not only for the fish but also for those wonderful Ospreys. I like the idea the Dennis had an alternative place to go fishing we suspected a private pond stashed with Koi.

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Tom Throwe
Last modified: Fri Dec 31 23:49:43 EST 2004