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Thread subject: Second copulation
Name Date Message
ltlwmn 06/27/05 10:55 am Hey there. There is a nest at Hecksher park that we have been watching for years. It seems that this year the first eggs didn't make it and they tried again. These new chicks just hatched and I was wondering the survival rate of a second try at mating so late in the season.
Tiger 06/27/05 11:10 am So when was the second clutch of eggs laid?
ltlwmn 06/27/05 11:24 am Not sure, but they just hatched yesterday. We are a little worried about the survival rate for them so late in the season. They are well behind the ones on the cam here, which i would assume are almost 2 months old. I know it is common for birds to have to lay a second clutch but I'm not sure of the survival rate of them.
Nancy L 06/27/05 11:46 am Our Brookhaven chicks are about 5 1/2 weeks old right now.
Cecilia 06/27/05 12:24 pm Poole mentions that "within osprey populations, some pairs may start laying eggs weeks or months after their neighbors." (usually younger couples) But he doesn't go on to talk about the success of these later breeders. There is a chart that shows birds in southern New England laying eggs as late as May 20th...so with average hatching dates of about 40 days that would have the chicks emerging on June 30th. So the Hecksher Ospreys seem to still have a chance at a successful family. Here's hoping!
Celeste 06/27/05 12:32 pm I tried to find out the success rate of an osprey 2nd clutch...no luck on the internet.....perhaps Poole's book, Cec? I do believe also that Tiger has mentioned 2nd clutches, but I don't know how their weather affects the 2nd clutch success rate of migration.

We know that with the first clutch, the birds hatch end of May, fledge by mid-July. The female migrates first, end of Aug early Sept. The male stays behind for some extra fishing lessons for the already fledged chicks. Osprey have been seen as late as end of September-October, and I read anything later than that there is probably something wrong with the osprey....However, it would be interesting to know whether or not the "parents" adjust their schedules when there is a 2nd clutch? Also, in areas where spring takes longer to arrive and warm weather ends early, like our northern states of Maine-Alaska, and also Canada, which is known to get snow in October, when does their migration start?
ltlwmn 06/27/05 12:39 pm Thank you for this great information. I'll let you guys know how the little ones make out and I'll post some pics when we get them on the edge of the nest and starting to fledge.
Tiger 06/27/05 01:12 pm Well we have an example of a hatching on 29th June at Rutland in 2003.

As you can see the two young fledged successfully. Indeed we are hoping that they reappear back at Rutland any time now.

http://www.ospreys.org.uk/AWOP/Breeding2003C.htm
Tiger 06/27/05 01:23 pm Celeste I think that you are thinking of us hoping for a second clutch at Loch Garten this year. Henry the male was a bit late in returning and found that the wife EJ had already laid eggs which had been fertilized by her ex-husband.

Henry was having none of it and at first opportunity kicked the eggs out of the nest.

EJ left in a sulk and Henry had to go and get her back. However in spite of feeding with many fish EJ could not be persuaded to lay again this year.

However people are so overjoyed that the now legendary Henry is alive and well that losing a year of breeding is not so bad.

Read all about it at:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/reserves/guide/a/abernethyforest/diary/index.asp
Melanie 06/27/05 01:52 pm I do know that Lola and Pale Male have been seen mating since their clutch failed. John Blakeman, a RTH expert, offered this explanation: http://mariewin.server304.com/johnblog/2005/05/new-hawk-development.html
Tiger 06/27/05 01:56 pm And a lovely pic of Henry and EJ

Henry is saying "Oh stop going on about fish"

http://www.osprey2000.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/nagging.jpg
Melanie 06/27/05 03:34 pm She does look like she has a lot to say!
larry 06/27/05 03:45 pm "We know that with the first clutch, the birds hatch end of May, fledge by mid-July."

this has been the basic pattern for the heckscher pair for the last 4 to 5 years.

i started visiting the nest sometime in may, and immediately noticed that the pair were not acting appropriately for a pair still incubating eggs. we finally heard the faints crys of chicks on sunday morning (none on saturday morning) and made the assumption that the first try failed, and maybe this is a second attempt. well, whatever it is, we will watch it unfold, and report back to you all, if you are interested....thanks for your kind responses. larry
Cecilia 06/27/05 04:24 pm Please do keep us informed Larry...we're spread out all over the island and different people watch and report about various nests. It should be intersting to see what happens to the Hecksher nest!
Anne 06/27/05 04:46 pm The interesting thing about the Loch Garten nest is that Henry and EJ are behaving as though they have had a family. Henry brings 6 fish some days, EJ calls for food, and they both see off intruders as soon as they see them. This is apparently a bonding (there was plenty of copulation even after it was way too late for any eggs) and territorial process. They are both saying next year we'll be back to raise a family and this nest is ours, and Henry is demonstrating what a superb provider he is. Lets hope he is not late next year!
Marie 06/27/05 05:24 pm One of the nests here in Victoria only hatched their eggs this past week so they are late too......always a good reason for lateness.
But I don't think it is too late for chick survival. At least not from the nest. Whether they do well on the southward migration is another matter for they really have to get moving before the bad weather sets in which doesn't give them much time to learn all they need to before they are really strong. I would imagine many late fledglings are much more susceptable to injury and malnutrition than the earlier fledglings.
Anne 06/28/05 06:17 am Its certainly the autumn migration issue here in the UK that determines whether late fledglings survive. In Scotland the fish start swimming deeper from October onwards making them difficult to catch. Further south in England the young ospreys have a better chance of fishing successfully in the autumn, and young ones do linger around on their way south. We had a juvenile stay all October on the local reservoir once.
Anne 06/28/05 06:17 am Its certainly the autumn migration issue here in the UK that determines whether late fledglings survive. In Scotland the fish start swimming deeper from October onwards making them difficult to catch. Further south in England the young ospreys have a better chance of fishing successfully in the autumn, and young ones do linger around on their way south. We had a juvenile stay all October on the local reservoir once.

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Tom Throwe
Last modified: Sat Feb 18, 2006