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Thread subject: Have you noticed?
Name Date Message
Cecilia 07/20/05 09:52 am I was gone for a few days while there were discussions going on about the "bindi" and head patterns etc. so I'm still confused...but I thought we had named the one who took all the meals most aggressively and complained the loudest, Brook..and that Haven was the other, calmer chick? (who is looking more female every day but that's another subject).

Anyway...I've been noticing that when Haven is standing with her left eye facing the cam, and she closes it, that it looks strangely white. The quality of my picture gets worse and worse as I go to the bigger screen sizes so I can't really look at it close up but it looks very different. She is standing at the edge of the nest right now and I got a good shot of it. I'm wondering if she has a white eyelid?
Shelley 07/20/05 10:52 am Ok, Cec, I've done a little investigating. You first mentioned the bindi in a thread titled *Telling Them Apart* #6043). That is now on page 5 of this message board. Your post in that thread is #6075 and you mentioned the white spot. You did identify Brook as the one on whom you noticed it.

Speaking for myself, though, my confusion may be in the names. I always thought that Brook was chick #2, the more aggressive one, the piggie. I thought Haven was the one who fledged first, the one who hangs back when Brook hogs the fish. This one (the first fledged) is the one I have always called Haven and the one on whose head *I* see the white dot. Unless, of course, they actually both have white dots. In which case, we are back to square and positive ID has to rely on behaviour, not appearance.

Whoever suggested name tags, I agree!!

Shelley, more than a little confused... ;-)
Mickey 07/20/05 12:20 pm Cec......please dont take this the wrong way. At this stage in the nest does it really matter who is who? I just read through yesterday and todays obs and theres people naming who is up on the camera perch yapping. Theres no way thats a accurate observation. But my point is at this stage its all irrelevant. They both are alive and have fledged successfully !! YIPPIEEEEEE !

And if its not Haven that has the white dot then guess what? Brook fledged first HAHAHA
I have a ferry to Bridgeport to catch. Have fun everyone :)
DaveS 07/20/05 01:31 pm There is an archived still from July 19 that clearly shows the white head spot.
Cecilia 07/20/05 02:10 pm listen...the point of this thread was not the name was the white eyelid issue :-) I did get a picture of it. I've seen a white spot on one chick's head all along...that's not what I was asking about this morning (although thank you Dave for posting a picture in the Archived Stills of the chick with that spot). It's the eyelid on the left side of the one chick that is white that seems strange. Pam sent me some pictures of an eagle's nictitating membrane to see if I thought that's what I was seeing but I don't think that's it. It's a much bolder white color than that membrane would be. It just seems odd and It crossed my mind that it might be swollen or something worrisome :-(
karen 07/20/05 02:21 pm Hi Cec I will try to look when I am lucky enough to catch the chicks in the nest .... maybe Dave can get a better look also hope it is nothing but the photo grab you got did look very odd
karen 07/20/05 02:24 pm Did you look in any of your photo books? I think that usually the eyes are in the "mask" that is so prominent on the osprey and usually that is all dark ...

DaveS 07/20/05 02:57 pm I posted another picture in the archive section. It was from the morning of April 17 (look in the week starting April 17 - first picture). It shows the female with her eyes closed and, except for a thin dark line, the eyelid is white. I hope this helps....
Marie 07/20/05 05:52 pm BTW this WHITE eye business that people have noticed, is what we call the third eyelid that sweeps across the eyeball to clean it and protect it. It is called the Nictitating membrane and has several functions. All Raptors have it as far as I am aware. Often when the birds sleep we see it come over the eye. I have seen it in many ducks too. Hope this helps.
DaveS 07/20/05 06:00 pm Thanks Marie, good information!
Cecilia 07/20/05 06:42 pm Nictitating membrane is the first thing I thought of but I ruled it out because they are a much greyer color...not nearly as distinctive, bright or white as what I've mentioned. I think Haven just has some white feathers on her left lid that show up when she closes that eye. Dave referred me to a picture in the Archived Stills link that he took on April 17, at 8:17, that is a good shot of her left eyelid and it was showing up even more white three months ago...before her black eye stripe came in fully.

RonS 07/21/05 03:46 pm Here is more than you would want to know about nictating membranes:
Pam 07/21/05 05:01 pm Be warned - ghastly picture of a chicken's eye - much too human for my liking - THANKS A BUNCH RON :)))))) Ugh ! - I have to say my eagle's nictitating membrane is really nice ....
Cecilia 07/21/05 06:05 pm But more are you doing Ron? Good to see that you're checking up on the nest...hope it means you are feeling better!
Celeste 07/21/05 07:14 pm Yay!! Ron......hope you are feeling better. Thanks for the info!
Pam 07/21/05 07:31 pm Sorry Ron - forgot my manners - good to see you back and feeling better hopefully.

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Tom Throwe
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