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Thread subject: Telling the 2 babies apart
Name Date Message
Lori In Tampa 07/28/05 05:33 pm I have been enjoying this pair of ospreys since just before they fledged. Can someone "coach" on how to tell Brook from Haven and which is what sex? Thanks!!
Pam 07/28/05 05:53 pm Lori - I think we all find it very difficult, hence the confusion. At first we thought they were both female because they both seem to have the female "necklace", i.e. area of small dark feathers across the chest, but after the get together at the Pulestone home we were told that one of the young was male. We decided that just about the only way to physically tell them apart, (aside from one being slighter bigger than the other which is deceptive on the cam anyway) was the fact that one has a white dot in the middle of the dark patch on its forehead. We think this is Brook, the female. The spot reminded Shelley of the Bindi (painted dot in the middle of an Indian woman's forehead). However, we all still seem to get mixed up and none of us seems too sure so don't worry about it :) (I'm the worst) so someone will correct me if I have given the wrong information to you.
Celeste 07/28/05 06:13 pm There are lots of times I try and not put a name on them, but I find it very difficult. I tend to watch their behaviors, (if one is more alpha than the other, size if they are next to each other, the white spot, the tails, though this is getting harder, and mostly the loud screeching. I like how Lori, (Long Island Lori?) refers to them as babies, which I "stole" from you in one of my obs. And, as Pam said we are all getting mixed up, and each day we see them in the nest, you never know from one day to the next if they will continue to be there anyway...so at this point in time it's just fun to call them anything!
Marie 07/28/05 06:53 pm Well ladies.........in my mind I have been calling the one with the BINDI( white spot in the dark area of the forehead) HAVEN...........LOL
See how confusing it all gets.
I think too the one that incessantly chats is Haven, and I often refer to Haven as a she...wrong again.
I think any aggressive behaviour toward the other sibling is given by BROOK, being the alpha chick. Haven usually backs off after a thorough pecking to the head from Brook when fighting over fish.
I think too that Haven makes a lot of noise when eating because she not used to being alone and having first dibs at the fish...especially when two are in the nest . Almost like the chick/juvenile is saying,'' hey Brook, I have a fish so come share'
;- ) Mother used to feed Brook first pretty well always when they were chicks in the nest so I think Haven got used to a certain pecking order ( 2ND PLACE) while growing up. I think now he/she gets confused now that he/she doesn't always have to share or fight over a drop off, when it is meal time. Just my thoughts on the subject.
Lori In Tampa 07/28/05 07:19 pm Celeste, I'm the one who calls these beauties babies :-) I'm in Tampa, I wish I was on Long Island :-) I post observations as LORI sometimes as LORI in TAMPA, but mostly LORI.
Pam 07/28/05 07:24 pm Now if you were confused before Lori....what are you now ..... quite clear ??? Wink !
Celeste 07/28/05 07:38 pm Well Lori in Tampa, I love how you refer to them as babies.....I think the best names we can give them at this point!
Cecilia 07/28/05 07:48 pm Oh dear...I think I was the one who first pointed out the white spot...the "bindi" as Shelley called it. Then I was out of town and when I came back everyone seemed to be calling the one I thought was the male (Haven)...with the spot...Brook. I tried several times to straighten it out...to say that I thought the bird with the most obvious necklace and the loudest mouth and no spot, was Brook! And Haven, the one we thought was a female, then we thought was a male and then we thought was looking more and more like a female (!!@#%^&*%$%#&*) was the one with the spot (and the white eyelids) ! I have watched as various people have identified each one as Brook or Haven and I have noticed that our group is split about down the middle :-) Marie thinks Haven is the one with the big mouth and no spot and Celeste (I think) thinks it's Brook (and so do I) etc., etc. Somehow we all got confused and at this point I think we should just give up :-) We have one with a big mouth and one who is much quieter and calmer and we don't have any consensus about who is who:-) Let's assume that they know who they are and call it a day :-) We could call them "Big Mouth" and "Patient". :-)
Celeste 07/28/05 07:57 pm Now that I like....big mouth and patient!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds good to me! Oh and for the record yes Cec I call the one with the big mouth and no white spot Brook.
Lori In Tampa 07/28/05 08:12 pm Ladies, thanks so much for the, eh, uh, explanations. The difference is, uh, quite clear to me now. NOT!! LOL I think I just call then big mouth baby and patient baby... nite all :-)
Kathy 07/28/05 09:26 pm Since I don't watch that much, I still don't know who is who. The one I usually see in the nest is the one with the "Big Mouth" and what a perfect name for him or her.
Melanie 07/28/05 10:37 pm Ah, Houston, we could have a problem there. I'm kind of looking back at how last years' alpha chick took on the nickname of ChickZilla and ended up being refered to as CZ. If we are going to start refering to Brook as "Big Mouth", we'd better give her a middle name. And yes, I HAD to go there! How about Big Mouth Alpha Chick and just call her BigMac ;-p
Marie 07/29/05 12:20 am LOL Melanie, that is priceless........
I like it..big MAC.......LOL
Tiger 07/29/05 03:31 am Love it Melanie!

Hampstead and Martha's Vineyard had the distiction of being the only two places who had resisted the BigMac. We lost out in 1993 and I do not know the position in Martha's Vineyard.

Cecilia 07/29/05 08:34 am Ahhh Melanie...you're so funny! Big Mac is perfect! (but I can just hear Mickey's teeth grinding :-) And the other one should really be Patience instead of Patient...since it's more of a name. Aren't we badddd...nicknaming our "kids" ?
Melanie 07/29/05 09:28 am And probably scarring them for life and turning them into serial killers in the process.
Nancy L 07/29/05 09:37 am I call the one with the white circle, Haven. I don't know about right now, but originally, the louder voice was Brook & the raspier sound was Haven. The easiest way is when they're both in the nest, since Haven is the 2nd in order, but she has been getting more brazen lately.
Pam 07/29/05 10:39 am See what you have let yourself in for Lori with all us "featherheads" on the job ! Soon they will be gone and we won't have the problem, meanwhile "Big Mac" and the other one seems perfect to me .... at least we all know who we mean :))))) (Pam - hiding from Mickey throwing things at us)
Marie 07/29/05 07:09 pm where is Mickey these days?
Melanie 07/29/05 10:41 pm I believe he's been on vacation. In the immortal words of Ahnold - He'll be back. Or was that MacArthur? At any rate, I'm gone myself until Thursday. No birding - just tour-guiding my nieces in DC.

I notice no one has called Brook by her new name yet on the obs board. ;-p
Lori In Tampa 07/30/05 08:21 am So BROOK is the one with the DOT/bindi who is alpha BIG MAC and female. Then HAVEN is the male who is patient (PAT) baby. Right? Whew...I'm glad this isn't a life of death thing. I'd certainly be 6 feet under... LOL You all have been very sweet and welcoming. Thank you.
Celeste 07/30/05 09:47 am Actually, it's Haven with the dot that is chick 2, and the slightly bigger chick and the screeching mouth is Chick 1 Brook
Are we all confused yet?! Let them both be well and safe!:)
Lori In Tampa 07/30/05 01:44 pm Oui Vey!
Nancy L 07/30/05 05:44 pm P.S. Mickey said a while ago that he would be gone for a bit. That's why we're not hearing from him.
Kathy 07/30/05 07:54 pm Thanks Nancy, I've been wondering where he was.

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Tom Throwe
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