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Thread subject: Was wondering....
Name Date Message
Celeste 03/27/07 06:44 am Was reading Carpentieri's Osprey Book to get some insight regarding the change of female in the nest. We know that Betty 06 did return, but did she turn to a better provider as some female ospreys will do? It has also been suggested that osprey are more attached to their nests than to each other
Here are some points in the book<
1. female osprey begs for food from any nearby male, including an established mate.
2. younger paired males are not always as generous as older established males when it comes to feeding the females. We saw this last season with all the mantling Dennis 06 did over a fish. An experienced male will surrender a meal willingly
3. the female is less likely to beg food from or copulate with other males if she is well-fed.
4. the male not only feeds his chosen mate, which keeps her close to the nest, but he will defend her and the nest site from other males.

It mentions that pair bonding depends more on a solid secure nest, (which we do have)

Young ospreys tend to mate with birds their own age, but older birds, especially those into their 2nd decade, tend to select younger females. The majority of available single birds are usually 3-4 yrs olds mating for the first time.

It also says that a few ospreys indulge in mated trios, where one male breeds successfully with two females. This trait is more prevalent when there is a high rate of male mortality. The male in these cases treats both nesting females and clutches as his own, breeding, feeding and defending them with equal care and attention, usually successfully, right through the fledging of the young. It also happens, but rarely, 2 females will share a nest with one male. The studies on this are little, but it has been suggested that when it does happen it is mother/daughter, or sister/sister pairings.

So much to think about and learn. I wonder if Betty 06 was wooed by another male, etc. And is she in another nest nearby, etc., etc.:)


Anne UK1 03/27/07 06:55 am Interesting stuff Celeste. I wondered about the possibility of our Dennis running two nests - I guess we'll never know, but if he doesn't seem to be providing for his family too well this year it might mean he is.
Which female do you think is on the nest at the minute? If I enlarge the view the head markings go all fuzzy.
Tiger 03/27/07 07:08 am The single female in the nest just now is"The Dark One".
Celeste 03/27/07 07:09 am I had stepped away for a while, but yes it is the "dark one".
Tiger 03/27/07 07:14 am If you go to the second still of the year (14th March) and look I feel you will agree that this is a picture of "The Dark One". I guess she came and saw an empty nest and decided she liked it.

The picture is Here
Anne UK1 03/27/07 09:29 am I like the name, Tiger. Makes her sound like she won't be pushed around, doesn't it. I thought she sounded different from last year's female but wasn't sure about the markings - my eyesight's not sharp enough.
Marie 03/27/07 09:31 am Yes Tiger, that is her.............the dark beauty. ;-)
Anne 03/27/07 03:18 pm I am really glad that you have posted all this information Celeste, it is fascinating. There are so many scenarios to consider but the one I dont want to think about is if Dennis has two nests. He couldent support two lots of fledglings - could he?

I do feel that Betty must be happy with her lot, otherwise surely she would try to regain the DP nest. Maybe she has found an old flame, a stud or a toy boy and has given up on philandering Dennis. Whatever the answer - she must have her own nest by now.

Btw, I like the Dark Beauty's name - very appropriate.
RI osprey fan 03/27/07 03:44 pm The Dark One really is a gorgeous bird.
terryo 03/27/07 06:24 pm There goes my dark chocolate and milk chocolate names, damn.
DaisyG 03/27/07 06:40 pm My 'Betty Blackface' is definitely out then! :) Not romantic enough!


I think I will be outvoted by fans of 'The Dark One'. Shades of Zorro methinks...
Mickey 03/27/07 08:14 pm I really dont want to get in a pissing contest with anyone over names but I was under the impression whatever adults occupied the cam nest, would be called Dennis and Betty out of respect and a tribute to the man and for everything hes done for these birds. When we asked Betty to her face what she thought she grinned that big Betty grin and chuckled saying she didnt mind. Several of us were concerned how she might take to having a bird named her name :)
Naming the chicks was/has been a very democratic thing here.
So if your taking votes Daisy my vote is to leave the Adults names alone.
Tim P 03/27/07 08:20 pm For as much as I loath the idea of naming wild animals.
The names of pairs who occupy this nest should always remain Dennis & Betty.
Itâs as much a part of the tribute to Mr. Puleston as was the erection of this camera.
Celeste 03/27/07 08:22 pm Yes, I totally agree with Mickey. Mrs. Puleston really liked the idea that this was our way of paying tribute to her husband and Mrs. Puleston. As Mickey stated we were shy at first about telling the real Betty, but when we finally got our courage up she said she already knew and she loved it. We already choose names of chicks, but I do feel we should keep the names of any osprey parent in honor of this nest and site. There would be no site if it wasn't for the generosity of the Pulestons donating the land to Wertheim in the first place.
Celeste 03/27/07 08:24 pm I of course saw Tim's post after I posted. So I agree with Tim and Mickey!
DaisyG 03/27/07 08:51 pm Dear Mickey, it may have escaped your notice...but I was joking. As I am sure, was everyone else. I am well aware of and respect the traditions of this site.
Melanie 03/27/07 09:26 pm At the risk of being the "me too" brigade bringing up the rear, I'm with Celeste, Tim & Mickey.

Opening subject of Dennis supporting two nests, since last year there was a lot of hand wringing about how Dennis better get on his game, I wonder at the possibility that last years' lackluster performance was possibly the result of spreading himself too thin between two nests and conducting his peccadillo off-camera.

Let that be a lesson you guys out there - you will ALWAYS slip up and get caught! ;-p
Marie 03/27/07 11:03 pm Lol Melanie............our 2006 Dennis perhaps was doing just what has been hinted by you and by Celeste over the past few days. Celeste has without a doubt delved into her osprey library to supply some very interesting facts for us all, as to how these fascinating birds 'PLAY' once they return to their breeding grounds.
Brings a big smile to my face most days when I log onto DPOF and I start to read the obs/message board.
My reference to ' dark beauty ' is not a name for this bird but a characteristic of a female in comparison to any other female in the nest at this time. All female ospreys are called Betty, no matter who settles in this nest.
Anne UK1 03/28/07 06:15 am Just wondering - do we think this is definitely the same male as last year or could we have a completely different pair on the nest. Might last year's pair be together on another nest in the area? We've discussed the females a lot, but not so much the male.
Agree they will be Dennis and Betty regardless btw, but I found it handy to have such a descriptive label to latch onto for this new female for a couple of days.
Anne 03/28/07 06:32 am Dear me, I seem to have caused a storm in a teacup by my faux pas. Of course I dident mean that the new female should have a new name permanently. As Anne UK says, it has been handy to identify the new female as a different bird to last years. She now seems settled so she is the new Betty.

Presumably, if last years Betty shows her face again, we will refer to her as Betty 05 or 06?

I have seen two different males over the past two days too.
Celeste 03/28/07 06:37 am That's a great though and I would love to know for sure if this is a different male, then it would make more sense. I am watching this Dennis mantle for well over 7 minutes and I read yesterday that only young males will mantle their mating gifts of fish. The more experienced male will readily hand over his fish to his mate. You would think that if it is the same male as last year he would be more inclined to hand over the fish this year.:)
Celeste 03/28/07 06:47 am Maybe this is a different male, cause he is now eating this fish that he brought to the nest almost 15 minutes ago....not a sign of a more mature male that's for sure!
Anne 03/28/07 06:47 am The other difference is that this Betty does not nag! Looking at this male, I feel it is not last year's Dennis. I am going to try and capture and compare - - - -
terryo 03/28/07 06:52 am Don't suppose we'll ever know when/if any of Dennis and Betty male offspring (or female) have returned. Hey, you never know. It really must be exciting when you know for sure one of your birds has returned.
Tiger 03/28/07 06:56 am Oh Terry it is so exciting when you know for definite that they have returned. Last summer we had the fantastic excitement of the first English born osprey in 150 years returned. Even more remarkable when his sister returned a few weeks and so the 2004 nest had a 100% first return rate.

See Here
terryo 03/28/07 07:21 am I've been to the Ruland site often. You guys on that side of the Pond know how to do it right. I lived in Brechin Scotland 75-78 and loved the people.
Tiger 03/28/07 07:31 am Oh lived in Edinburgh from 74-80 so without knowing it we have lived in the same country.
Anne 03/28/07 07:38 am Did you do any canoeing in Scotland Terry? We are going to do the River Spey in June so I am hoping to see some Ospreys along the way.
terryo 03/28/07 12:35 pm No canoeing during that part of my life. Was to busy getting pissed in the pub b4 closing time (ha). That was when last call was 10 I believe weekdays, 11 on weekends unless tourist hotel who had their special hours. Enjoy your trip on the Spey in a couple of months, it'll be a blast I'm sure.
terryo 03/28/07 12:38 pm Tiger, a small world indeed. Ever spend time in Cyprus. I lived there 68-69 for about 17 months. Beautiful country when they are not fighting.
Tiger 03/28/07 01:28 pm No terry I never been to Cyprus in my life. Taught a few students from there though.

Copyright © 2007 DPOF

Tom Throwe
Last modified: Sat Feb 17, 2007